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There I Was: The X-Files Edition

March 14, 2015
Paco Chierici 84 Comments Navy

A good buddy of mine and former squadron mate, Dave “Sex” Fravor, has one of the most bizarre aviation stories of all time.  It is a story that stretches credibility, so I’ll start off by building up Dave’s bona fides.

For what it’s worth, I know him personally — very well.  We flew A-6s together for a cruise back in the Dark Ages before he matriculated into the Hornet world.  He’s a funny guy.  Smart and sharp witted, with a typical fighter pilot’s overestimation of his skills. (He’d read the SHB article and assured me his was way better than anything Nasty could do.  I called B.S.–pretty standard.)  In the air, though, Dave was all business, as professional as it gets.

It’s easy to get a sense of who and what he is because his squadron was featured on the 10-part miniseries Carrier that aired on PBS.  You get an excellent and accurate impression of him from his screen time as Commanding Officer of VFA-41.

166842_NKX_2011-02-12fsjh

VFA-41 ‘Black Aces’ CAG jet on its takeoff roll at MCAS Miramar, heading out to perform of the many Centennial of Naval Aviation fly-by’s.

On the morning of 14 November 2004, Dave and his WSO launched into the clear blue Southern California sky about a hundred miles southwest of San Diego.  Their Call Sign was FASTEAGLE 01.  His wingman and WSO launched just after them in FASTEAGLE 02.  They climbed overhead the ship and rendezvoused in normal fashion before setting off to their assigned work area in the open ocean south of USS Nimitz.  Normal day, normal ops for the pre-deployment work up cycle they were in the middle of.

The Nimitz Carrier Strike Group had been on station for a few weeks already, working to integrate the operations of the carrier with her various support ships, including the Ticonderoga Class Guided Missile Cruiser, USS Princeton.   As far as Dave was concerned, it was a standard day in a normal work up cycle.  Another step in the long journey in preparing the ships of the Strike Group and the planes of the Air Wing to work harmoniously for their upcoming combat deployment.

What Dave didn’t know was for the past several days, Princeton had been picking up some bizarre returns on their Death Star-worthy SPY-1 radar.  On several occasions beginning 10 November, the Fire Control Officer and the extremely experienced Fire Control Senior Chief had detected multiple returns descending from far above the radar’s scan volume–somewhere higher than 80,000 ft.  The targets, dubbed Anomalous Aerial Vehicles (AAVs), would drop from above 80K to hover roughly 50 feet off the water in a matter of seconds.

Always over the same spot, a Lat/Long about 30NM off the coast of Baja, roughly 70nm southwest of Tijuana.  At the time, the SPY-1 was the most sophisticated and powerful tactical radar on the planet.  With it, they were able to track these AAVs while they descended, hovered and then zipped away at speeds, turn rates and accelerations faster than any known friendly or threat aircraft.  Impossibly fast.

166455_NFL_2007-01-25fsjh

VFA-41 ‘Black Aces’ CAG resting on the ramp after a sortie during Air Wing Fallon.

Once the Air Wing’s planes arrived aboard Nimitz, the Fire Control team on Princeton saw an opportunity to use those assets and eyeballs to help solve the AAV mystery.

At the same time FASTEAGLE flight was wrapping up its scheduled training, the CO of Marine Hornet squadron VMFA-232, Lieutenant Colonel “Cheeks” Kurth, was completing a post-maintenance check flight not too far away.  He was the first fast-mover contacted by Princeton.  The communication was strange and intriguing.   He was asked to investigate an unidentified airborne contact.  This wasn’t a terribly unusual request while a Strike Group was in transit or deployed far from home waters, but it was more than a little strange practically in sight of the San Diego Homeport.  To add to the unusual communications, he was queried as to what ordinance he had on board.

“None.”

While Princeton was communicating with Cheeks, they were also attempting to hand off their AAV contact to the Air Wing’s E-2C Hawkeye, also airborne at the time.  The crew from VAW-117 had been providing intercept control for FASTEAGLE flight during their training.  Princeton now wanted the E-2 to guide the Super Hornets to an intercept with the AAV contact, currently hovering over their favorite spot, but now about 20,000 feet over the ocean.

The AAV returns had not been strong enough to show up on the E-2’s broad sweep, but once they focused their radar on the coordinates Princeton directed them towards, they managed a faint contact.  The radar returns from the contact weren’t enough to generate a target track however, so Princeton cut the E-2 from control and contacted FASTEAGLE directly.  Though he was unable to lock up the AAVs, the E-2 controller remained on frequency and listened to the entire ensuing evolution.

Screen shot 2011-04-30 at 8.31.17 PM

As Cheeks approached the spot he was being vectored to, Princeton advised him to stay above 10K as the section of Super Hornets were approaching the target.  His radar picked up the FASTEAGLE two-ship, but no other contacts.  A moment later Princeton directed him to “skip it” and return to the ship.  Since he was so close, he decided to fly over the action and sneak a peek.

The sea was calm, almost glassy smooth and it was late morning on a beautiful SoCal day.  Perfect conditions.  As Cheeks flew over the spot he saw a disturbance on the surface of the ocean.  A round section of turbulent water about 50-100 meters in diameter.  It was the only area and type of what he called, “whitewater” describing that it looked as if there was something below the surface like a shoal or what he’d heard a ship sinking rapidly would look like.

He overflew the disturbance and circled back in the direction of Nimitz without ever seeing what caused the water to froth.  As he turned away, which happened to be the moment the Super Hornets converged on the location, the whitewater cleared and the ocean surface returned to its smooth state.  The spot of the previous disturbance was completely indiscernible.

A few thousand feet below him, Dave had gone though the similar surreal experience of being asked by Princeton if the FASTEAGLE jets were carrying any ordnance.  Dave’s baffled WSO reported that all they had were two captive-carry training missiles.  They were given bearing and range vectors to a set of coordinates and told to investigate an unknown aerial contact over that spot.

With no further information on the contact, they descended to the low 20s and scanned with radar, picking nothing up.  Neither plane in this flight was carrying a FLIR pod, which limited the type of sensors they could search with; but, both planes were brand new–in Dave’s words, “They still had that new car smell.”  The APG-73 radars were both new and had performed perfectly during the previous hour’s training.  Yet the screens from both planes were clean all the way to the point Princeton called “Merge plot!”

A cigar-shaped UFO over Los Angeles in 2012.

A cigar-shaped UFO over Los Angeles in 2012. (Image Courtesy: YouTube.com)

All four aircrew were eyes out from this point forward.  The first unusual indication Dave picked up was the area of whitewater on the surface that Cheeks was looking at over his shoulder as he flew away.  He remembers thinking it was about the size of a 737 and maybe the contact they had been vectored on had been an airliner that had just crashed.  He maneuvered his F-18 lower to get a better look.  As he was descending through about 20K he was startled by the sight of a white object that was moving about just over the frothing water.  It was all white, featureless, oblong and making minor lateral movements while staying at a consistent low altitude over the disk of turbulent water.

Dave put FASTEAGLE 02 into high cover passing through about 15K and she and her WSO witnessed the events from a perfect vantage point.  Dave continued his dive lower towards the object, now also attempting to slave the radar through his HMCS to achieve a short range lock.  No luck.  His intention was to pass the object close aboard at about 350 kts, but as he got closer he noticed that the AAV had oriented one of its skinny ends towards him, as if, in his words, “It had just noticed us” and it was now pointing at them.

The AAV then began to rise from its hover.  The object, which he would later describe as a while tic-tac, rose in right 2-circle flow about a mile cross-circle from Dave’s Hornet.  BFM instincts took over and Dave dug nose-low to cut across the bottom of the circle.  As he was looking at the AAV and pulling his nose up to bear, the tried again to slave his radar via the HMCS.  Again, the APG-73 was unable to lock on the white, fighter-sized flying object now just a couple of thousand feet away and closing.

All through these maneuvers, Dave’s WSO was broadcasting the real-time events of the intercept to Princeton.  The radar operators in the E-2 listened on the secure net to what sounded like one of the hundreds of intercepts they had heard over the years.  With the notable exception that the aircrew’s voices were more stressed and the verbiage to ID the target was unlike anything they had heard before.

166452_NFL_2007-01-25fsjh

A Super Hornet from VFA-41 ‘Black Aces’ sitting on the ramp at NAS Fallon.

In his debrief comments, Dave, his WSO and the two other crews stated the object had initially been hovering like a Harrier.  They described it as uniformly white, about 46  feet long (roughly fighter-sized), having a discernible midline horizontal axis (like a fuselage) but having no visible windows, nacelles, wings or propulsion systems.

As Dave was pulling for nose-on and trying to get a dogfight lock with his radar, the AAV tightened its turn, “lift vector on, then aft” as Dave described, passed behind his tail and accelerated away at multi-Mach speed.  Dave immediately queried Princeton for a snap-vector but the SPY-1 radar had also lost the contact.  The first calls from Princeton were “picture clean.”  A few moments later Princeton came back with, “You’re not going to believe this, it’s at your CAP.”  Princeton had picked up the AAV hovering at 24K at the assigned Lat/Long Dave had used earlier during training as his orbiting point.

Though low on gas, the FASTEAGLE flight swung through the CAP position to try and pick up the AAV again.  They saw nothing more on their way back to Nimitz.  Even the 100 meter circle of turbulent ocean water had disappeared.  That spot was now indistinguishable from the rest of the sea’s surface.  Asked later, Dave reported that he had not seen anything on or below the surface of the ocean that may have caused the turbulent circle of water.  It had existed when they had first visually acquired the tic-tac, then was gone when they circled back a few minutes later.

Back on Nimitz after recovery, the four crew headed down to the paraloft to remove their gear.  The next four crews from VFA-41 were getting dressed for their training mission to the same area, using the same assigned Lat/Longs as CAP points.  Dave and his crewmembers passed on what they had seen to the new guys and reminded them to get tape if they could.

By the time the new crew launched, rendezvoused and checked in with the E-2 for control, it was early afternoon; 1500.  The planes separated, with one heading to that same southern CAP location.  They were cruising along at 20K and 300kts, max endurance.  Again, the jet, radar and also, this time, the FLIR were spanking new and operating perfectly.

The WSO first picked up a contact on the radar around 30nm away while it was operating in the RWS scan mode.  He checked the coordinates and it was indeed hovering at their precise CAP point.  He attempted several STT locks, to no avail.  Later, in the debrief, he explained that he had multiple telltale cues of EA.

The target aspect on the track file was turning through 360 degrees along with some other distinct  jamming indications.  In the less precise scan mode, the return indicated that the object was, in the WSO’s words, “A few thousand feet below us.  Around 15-20K– but hovering stationary.”  The only movement was generated by the closure of the fighter to the CAP location.

The WSO resorted to the FLIR pod on board, slaving it to the weak track the RWS mode had been able to generate.  He recorded the following sequence to the on-board recorder.  Using the IR mode, he was able to lock onto the AAV.  It showed up on his screen and on tape as a white object in a black background hovering with no known means.

The IR camera did not detect roiling hot gasses blasting from below the AAV, as they would with a Harrier or a helicopter.  It was simply hanging in midair.  He switched to the TV mode and was able to again lock the FLIR onto the object while still trying, with no luck, to get a STT track on the radar.  As he watched it, the AAV moved out of his screen to the left so suddenly it almost seemed to disappear.  On the tape, when it is slowed down, the object accelerates out of the field of view with shocking speed.  The WSO was not able to reacquire the AAV either in RWS or with the FLIR.

Somehow the tape made its way to YouTube.  A few years after the incident, when first telling me the story, Dave pointed me to the link.  It was unremarkable without the background information.  But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen.  For years I told the story to friends and showed them the video as punctuation.

However last month when I called Dave to refresh my memory before sitting down to write this bizarre encounter, he informed me that the video had been removed from YouTube.  He told me that a government agency with a three letter identifier had recently conducted an investigation into the AAVs and had exhaustively interviewed all parties involved.

All of the seven flight crew, including 6 aircrew from VFA-41 and Cheeks from VMFA-232.  The Fire Control Officer and Senior Chief from Princeton, and the radar operator on the E-2.  They even queried the crew of the USS Louisville, a Los Angeles-class Fast-Attack submarine that was in the area as part of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group who reported there were no unidentified sonar contacts or strange underwater noises on that day.

I’m not sure what to make of these events.  I’ve loved the story since first listening because it is so crazy.  I had never given aliens or UFOs much thought.  It was a waste of my CPU power to mull a question like that.  If they wanted to make contact, they would.  If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.

But now I was faced with credible witnesses.  Not crackpots wearing foil hats but people I knew and people who were from my world.  There were multiple, corroborating platforms that detected the AAVs using varied sensors.  And, of course, the eight eyeballs that actually got a visual on the white tic-tac as Dave maneuvered to merge with it.  He doesn’t have to be a stranger to you either.  Watch him on the PBS series, Carrier, and generate your own opinion of his professionalism and sanity.

Then send me your best design for an aluminum foil hat…

About the Author

Paco Chierici flew A-6E Intruders and F-14A Tomcats during his 10 year active duty career. He flew the F-5 Tiger II for a further 10 years as a Bandit concurrent with his employment as a commercial pilot. Paco is currently a 737 captain. Paco is also the creator and producer of the award winning naval aviation documentary Speed and Angels. Paco has written articles for various international and domestic magazines as well as regular contributions to Fighter Sweep. He has signed with an agent to represent the sale of his debut novel, Lions in the Sky, a naval aviation thriller. Paco has the standard panoply of medals and ribbons but his proudest accomplishment is the Top Nugget award for landing grades from his first deployment.

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  • CG59

    4th generation Foo Fighters?

  • gipbmac

    great article! I have always wanted to talk to a pilot who has seen any of these aav’s/ufo’s. Definitely a thought provoking topic…

  • TeufelshundeUSMC

    ” However last month when I called Dave to refresh my memory before sitting down to write this bizarre encounter, he informed me that the video had been removed from YouTube.  He told me that a government agency with a three letter identifier had recently conducted an investigation into the AAVs and had exhaustively interviewed all parties involved. ”

    The story holds up (meaning similar stories have been told), except for the above part under lined. Which component would be responsible? DS&T? Adding the whole Project Bluebook angle to this story only minimizes it, IMHO (unless that’s the intent). Was Dave (and/or the video leakers) ordered to remove the video? or did the agency scrub it themselves? If the video was so unremarkable, why take it down? Plenty of dots accelerate off screen.

    Because if said gov’t agency did scrub the video this would only encourage more of the same video uploaded, the exact opposite of squashing said interest.

    So my question is why was the video not re-uploaded by third party UFO nuts? Was it truly unremarkable? That after years on youtube, no UFO nut decided to screen capture or copy it is interesting.

    ” It was unremarkable without the background information.  But folded into context it was amazing, especially the slow-mo of the dot accelerating out of screen. ”

    But aside from all that UFO craziness, and on a serious note, my real question is if there’s a process in place to de-conflict these encounters with Skunk Works or other contracted projects–professional courtesy of sorts so our guys don’t become UFO nuts themselves, read them in the bare minimum and then have them sign at NDA. I think this was one of those cases, and the agency, wrongly attributed either by you or Dave, may have been DoD (like the Blackbird projects) folk just trying to keep hush our own capabilities.

    “Mother Ships”, now we’re talking, and I’d be less incredulous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Z2NqSxds0

  • Robert Powell

    Hi Paco. I would like to discuss this event with you offline. Could you send me an email to [email protected]

  • Chris Isbert

    Hi Paco and Robert. An FOIA request has been submitted about this case/story. I’ll keep you updated if it works out…

  • woodsidetj

    I went to flight school in Pensacola with CDR Fravor’s WSO on this flight. (I won’t say his name on here.) Heard this story through the Hawkeye grapevine not long after it happened. We were down the hall from VAW-117. I would have thought it was BS if I didn’t know the WSO that told the story. Most level headed guy you’ll ever know. Smart as hell. He described it as a giant, flying Tylenol that could stop on a dime from super sonic speeds.
    Thanks for sharing this, Paco. Can’t believe I just now found your site!
    –Boomhower

    • Christophe Spitzer

      Hi “Boomhower”,

      Did you watch the ATFLIR footage back then and if so, could you please tell me if that’s the footage I posted in the comments 24 days ago?

      Could you please contact me to discuss the details of your story? [email protected]

      Cheers,
      Chris

    • warbaby

      Linda Moulton Howe of earthfiles.com is looking to contact Dave Fravor in the hopes of an interview with him. Any help would be appreciated. I have two pilots I am going to try and get info from but these men and all military do have very closed mouths.

  • Robert Powell

    I would like to discuss this event with anyone willing to talk about it as I am doing an in depth research of this event. I will keep names anonymous if desired and I can provide references. My email is [email protected] Thanks.

  • Jack Sarfatti

    https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com I have been working on the post-quantum mechanics of all this for years. https://ricochet.com/archives/saturday-night-science-flying-saucers-explained/

  • roland3337

    Question from a civilian on this event: What is the the Navy’s current explanation?Any word, or record?

  • missbenez

    Hi! This was included in the To The Star Academy Public Introduction Video on Wednesday! It’s what brought me here! 😀 Great Telling! Thank You! 🙂

  • warbaby

    I have watched Carrier several times Dave was one of my faves. A very credible person. Also I would have his children too.

  • disqus_lkVjMrnsGt

    That is the most fascinating story I’ve heard in a long time. Assuming there were soft tissue biological beings inside the 40 foot long ‘Tylenol capsule’, they must have some exotic technology to counter the huge g-forces induced by the violent maneuvers described by the naval airmen. Here’s a very speculative concept for creating a future, working, Alcubierre warp drive that would negate such enormous g-forces; assuming nature works this way.

    http://starflight1.freeyellow.com/Testpage.html

    • John27

      The method of propulsion these craft use is based upon electrogravitics & magnetoplasmadynamics. There is no g-force for those inside.

    • andywade

      Why make that assumption? We’ve got drones ourselves, why wouldn’t the aliens?

      For the record, I am not a UFO believer but if there were aliens, this is probably how we’d find out – they wouldn’t neccesarily want to contact us just as we deliberately don’t contact a lot of isolated human tribes. Yet there would still be odd encounters of this nature – just as once in a while someone flies a chopper over an uncontacted tribe who react predictably by throwing rocks at it, once in a while an extraterrestrial would do the same to us, and indeed we react predictably by sending fighter jets… all we have is a hammer, so everything looks like a nail.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

      • ThomasF

        Yeah, they’d be sending drones. And the trend in drones for us is increasing miniaturization. If aliens were really observing us, they’d be using nano-drones that were ubiquitous in the environment and which we’d have little chance of detecting. Why send a macro object at all?

        • Thomas OHearn

          Maybe they’re doing both. Maybe our evolutionary and technological path is different from theirs (OBVIOUSLY). Sounds so silly saying “they’d be doing this.”

        • Marko

          ” If aliens were really observing us, they’d be using nano-drones……”

          Kinda scary to consider the possibility that there may be aliens that think of a 40-foot drone as being nano-sized.

  • David Hodrien

    To anyone here off the back of Tom DeLonge’s announcement, be aware that the image of the object shown at the top of this page, and more importantly during the announcement while discussing this case, is from Manchester in 2005 and is nothing to do with the inicident described here. It is clear that this article contains numerous UFO photograps from various other cases. But the fact that the 1st photograph was shown close up while discussing USS Nimitz during the announcement is very concerning. Surely they were aware that it wasn’t to do with the case? And if so, why insinuate that it was?

    • iandubin

      Yes, noted. I recognised the screenshot of the FLIR as being from the 2004 Mexican Airfoce Case. Still, an interesting story.

    • UFO photos

      And now this (
      Robert Powell – USS Nimitz UFO Encounter – October 24, 2017): http://www.openminds.tv/robert-powell-uss-nimitz-ufo-encounter-october-24-2017/41214#comment-77073

  • Sotu Nemo

    Sounds like something or someone wanted to update the Navy’s air combat skills. Sounds like they passed the test. The tic tac was obviously in area where flight opps are conducted.

  • Harry John Topalian

    Great observation David Hodrien about the images. I think there is definitely something to this phenomena and because of it’s controversial and elusive nature discernment is vital. The use of the images, particularly those without proper citations below them is not in good form. It could just be a case of the editor of the blog adding them to round out the article. This is a good blog post on how to credit images: https://writtent.com/blog/the-honor-code-of-a-noble-blogger-how-to-cite-pictures/

    As far as the author, he seems to be a real person with true credentials. Here’s his LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paco-chierici-a6704728/
    It is interesting to note that there was a profile pic there yesterday, but not today. Here is David Fravor’s LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-fravor-b67938b/

    Filmmaker Jeremy Corbell spoke of this case quite well on Coast to Coast AM on 10.22.17. He supplied the footage that is claimed to the real deal and confirmed by Chris Mellon: http://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/tic-tac-aav
    Of course we’re waiting for the most official people to supply the footage and stand by it.

    We have been given that and Leslie Kean covered it in great detail with the Chilean case, that has military witnesses and footage and arduous scientific analysis done, yet it still couldn’t get into the mainstream, through no fault of the its own: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/groundbreaking-ufo-video-just-released-from-chilean_us_586d37bce4b014e7c72ee56b

    Yes, there’s been lots of disinformation, denial, confusion, wishful thinking and probably manipulation by whatever is behind things like the Tic Tac manifestation. Hopefully more of these credible people in positions to know can confirm what’s going on and what we’re seeing as evidence. This is fascinating beyond compare.

  • CG59

    https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2017/10/22

  • Christophe Spitzer

    Dear Paco,

    Very interesting story, could you please tell me if this is the footage you mentioned in your article?
    https://youtu.be/z7xnLZ9FAvU

    Cheers,
    Chris

  • Lucy Cole

    Another sighting to
    add to the thousands of others. It Will not change anything here on
    planet stupid. Why, the next to last paragraph tells you why and
    there are 10’s of millions of Paco’s out there. I guess I am one
    of those “crackpots wearing tin foil hats”. I am In my fifties
    now, when I was eleven my mother told me of a daylight sighting of 3
    disc in 51’. So I have gotten to wear the tin foil hat through the
    70’s, 80’s. 90’, and on till today. Even my best friend from
    H.S. calls me a “conspiracy theorist”, a fallacy (error) in
    logic. This makes it easy not to waste your “ CPU”, just kill the
    messenger. Sometimes I cannot believe the arrogance and ignorance. “I
    had never given aliens or UFOs much thought”, no why would you when
    you can shut out all the witnesses who aren’t personal friends and
    superstars like yourself by labeling them “crackpots” and
    ignoring what? What was it you were shutting our? Well, uh probably
    the most important event in human history? Intelligence life from
    outside the planet. Sounds kinda slightly important to me. Then he
    leaves just two options, they come and make contact or they stay
    distant. Why not a third options they come near/here but don’t make
    “contact”. Why would an advanced race want to have anything to do
    with bunch of primitives with high technologies they don’t now how
    to control. We are nothing more than a bunch of self absorbed 13th
    century morons with nuclear weapons who seemed determined to go out
    with glory, destroy our planet, and our species with it, genius! No
    self respecting alien would have anything to do with us. They are
    probably laughing their asses off at the sheer stupidity off our
    naked aggression. We are like a 3 year old playing with a hand
    grenade. Sorry but I would rather be a tin-foil hat wearing crackpot
    than a two dimensional, self serving, willfully ignorant or just
    ignorant robot.

    • c_chandler

      there are many black ops that we have never heard about yet, since hey are secret and classified. it is interesting that they interviewed so many from this sighting with radar returns. probably the men in black gave them all a threat along with asking questions. i believe a lot of this comes from the created beings they deny. possibly created in the deep underground labs. using dna and other stuff. russia is way ahead creating organic robotic persons that look and act like humans for 2 weeks or so except the voice isn’t just right.

  • jayjay269

    I was on board the USS Princeton (2001-2005) when this all went down. We actually went to GQ (General Quarters) for about 4 hours as all if this was going down. I’ve been telling everyone about this even, but have gotten the usual “yeah right” look when I tell them about it. I saw the video after it happened, but didn’t think that it would somehow make it’s way to the public, considering all of the “security” that surrounded the issue.

    Crazy how the world turns, isn’t it?!

    Thank you for giving this event life! I no longer look like a tin foil hat wearing idiot!

    JT

    • Robert Powell

      Hi jayjay, I’ve been contacted by another individual onboard the Nimitz during that time. If you wouldn’t mind, please send me an email at [email protected]

    • Sphar

      So can you confirm other AVV’s during your onboarding? According to the news wrap prior incidents occurred. This happened a long time ago, 13 years to be exact.

  • wbf850

    Living on the gulf coast we see these things all the time. It’s common knowledge. If you were to ask around you would get probably a one out of ten response of ‘Yeah I saw that and man can it move fast!’ Probably a higher count out of the night time beach goers. And most agree that of course they are not from here.

    It like he said ‘If they wanted to make contact, they would. If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.’

    • Phillip Power

      Re: “If they wanted to make contact, they would. If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.”

      OK, let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that “UFO aliens” have been mapping and observing as much about the Earth as possible for, let’s say, the last 70 years (or a lot more – my argument would still apply).

      On that assumption, I submit that, from about 20 years ago, “they” would have been able to switch from a very broad mandate of observing, cataloging and inspecting every aspect of Geology, Geography, Human and non-Human Biology, Archeology, Human Technology, etc, etc, and be able to focus on the much more limited but vital task of monitoring the armed forces, including nuclear and other “armageddon capabilities”, of the major powers.

      Why? Because about 20 years ago, the Internet first appeared and by about 10 years ago, it has been possible for anyone and everyone to learn almost anything and everything from it. We’re talking Google Earth, Wikipedia, YouTube, etc or simply “googling” almost anything at all.

      I said “almost” just then because, expert hackers notwithstanding, the Military secrets of the Superpowers would not be so easily extracted and the aliens would still need to closely observe the Nimitz and all the other hardware of the US, Russian, Chinese and other militaries.

      Yes, this further assumes that said aliens would, indeed, be be able to secretly tap into the Internet but, given all the other technical abilities they would need to have, I think we could all agree that they would find that a very trivial task.

      • andywade

        I think we need to think more like anthropologists, and make fewer assumptions about the motives or psychology of the aliens.

        Maybe (if they exist) the aliens occupy a similar niche in relation to
        us that European-descended Americans and similar cultures do to
        indigenous peoples. To them, we are the aliens!

        Do we spend a lot of time decrypting the communications of uncontacted tribespeople? No, we spend our time gathering natural resources, amusing ourselves, and playing games of war and politics. Uncontacted peoples do not play a large part in our culture, that’s why they’re uncontacted – we tend to keep our distance out of respect, fear, or humanitarianism.

        If they exist, the aliens might have similar motives for remaining aloof. Or they might have better things to do – perhaps they’re not here for us at all, but came here because their own planet is defunct. Or perhaps they’re not from another planet at all. Who knows? We assume the earth is entirely mapped, but there are huge regions of the deep sea, the South Pole, and under the earth that we know little about. My point is, we’re assuming a lot about something we are not even sure is real.

      • mahajohn

        They’d at least need a valid username/pw or valid IP address to get some of the proprietary content!

  • John27

    If you’d like to know why they’re here:
    http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/Ale12NOW/file.html

  • John27

    Some things are way above your pay grade. It’s a good idea to leave it there.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6f446436e5a3ba0907a948a2dfafd61b7ec5298b65a12f6ed33cdb0cda1433a9.png

  • dan

    Paco, I’m coming to this late but just wanted to note how valuable an account this is, coming as it does from well-credentialed personnel as you and your colleagues.
    I’m a software engineer with an interest in aviation and anomalous aerial phenomena and I can’t tell you how much it is appreciated to have reports such as you have presented here. I notice from the comments that Robert Powell has probably already contacted you and other naval personnel who were present at this incident, and I hope you’ve been able to assist him further.
    I’m amazed though at how frank and open you have been, though. You mention so many details, including Dave Fravor’s name and others. Did you have to get clearance to mention all this stuff? Anyway, thank you!

  • Kelly Mclean

    I knew Dave back in Millington, TN back in 1982. We were both enlisted men in the Marines. He wasn’t called SEX back then, we called him Toledo, he called me Vegas because that was my home. Spent a lot of time driving around in his car. If you’ve ever been to NAS Millington, a way off the base is a holiday! The guy always had great stories, this one , after a 35 year hiatus is his best. As an airline employee for 30 plus years myself, I often strike up conversations with military crewmembers and off the record are very open and descriptive of encounters of this nature. Scepticism will always remain until one crashes in a major metropolitan area. If you talk to Dave anytime soon, tell him Kelly from Vegas is glad he is well and that detour he took from enlisted to OCS was a great decision.

  • milburnschmidt

    Im 81 and was around when this first became a topic in the 40s, Would like to know the truth before I pass on. Years ago we had a horse mutilated in our pasture in the snow with no tracks around it. Appeared to have been dropped always wanted to find out what it was dropped from. All these stories come up and we go on day to day. To many hard stories like this to dismiss the fact they are up there. and nobody knows whats going on. If we are a big ant farm for somebody I can live with it. Bless the men and women on the line who come up against these situations and are dismissed out of hand.No one be;lieves these things fly over us and the government isnt aware or concerned but as I read once what are they going to tell us sorry we are helpless and cant do anything. Easier to just say no comment.

    • Sphar

      We will both be long gone before there is even a hint that we have found other intelligent life in the universe. Only time will tell us IF the truth is out there.

      • milburnschmidt

        Im afraid we will find intelligent life in space before we find it in many of our citizens

  • Jimmy Kaiser

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html

  • Sphar

    Most likely a radar anomaly.

    • sferrin

      That shows up on imaging IR and you can see out the window?

      • Sphar

        Still not believable (no video or photographic imaging). Given the apparent incident occurred literally on the door step of US territory this would have been a MAJOR incident yet nothing was done to protect US soil with no scrambling of jets or other US naval power to search the area.

        • stopthesocialism

          Software bugs would not explain the pilot’s visual identification. Multiple pilots. These are not ordinary people.

          • Sphar

            Pilot fatigue and radar glitches are all too common. There is a rational explanation. Just because pilots saw an unidentified flying object doesn’t mean it’s of ET origin. It simply means we live in an imperfect world where weather can produce strange effects.

          • mahajohn

            “Whether” and “radar glitches” can not produce fighter-sized ‘tic-tacs’ that can fly at 10,000 MPH and stop on a dime.

          • Sphar

            Fatigue does strange things to the human mind and eyes. I had a similar experience in the 1970s during a visit to a relatives farm. One moment I saw a vehicle stopped. Next moment, the SAME vehicle was 300 meters away with people getting out of the vehicle. Impossible?

          • mahajohn

            Your experience isn’t relevant in any way, shape, or form. You don’t have the faintest idea what you’re talking about.

          • Sphar

            6EQUJ5 !! I don’t think anyone has the faintest idea of what these Naval personnel or the radar systems detected. Perhaps it was a space craft from another solar system that just happened to drop out of the sky near one of the biggest Naval Bases in the world!? Nah but what I can tell you is there must be a logical *rational* explanation for what was detected by both human and radar systems alike.

          • ugluk2

            You can’t tell us anything because you don’t know any more than anyone else. You might even be right— there might be an explanation you consider rational. But you don’t know this.

          • Sphar

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

          • Westcoastliberal

            That falls into the paranormal. A “time-slip” similar to deja vu.

          • ugluk2

            Sigh. There might be an explanation in terms of atmospheric physics, so why don’t you provide it? Or if not you, why not experts in the field? Simply stating that there has to be a “ rational” explanation without providing it is more a statement of faith. It would be fascinating to know that there are optical illusions that can do all the things reported here and one would think this would be important to understand, because one of these optical illusions might pop up in a wartime situation where people can’t afford to be distracted.

          • Sphar

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

            “Any type of electrical discharge from the wings of airplanes (see St. Elmo’s Fire) has been suggested as an explanation, since it has been known to appear at the wingtips of aircraft. It has also been pointed out that some of the descriptions of foo fighters closely resemble those of ball lightning.

            “Career U.S. Air Force pilot Duane Adams often related that he had witnessed two occurrences of a bright light which paced his aircraft for about half an hour and then rapidly ascended into the sky. ”

            Verdict? Case closed!

        • arthur

          seems a lot more believable now all of a sudden https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html?_r=1

          • Sphar

            These kinds of incidents are spruiked up around this time each year to give people a false sense of hope that “something is out there” when in reality there are 10 billion lifeforms on this planet and only ONE realizes we are all living on a sphere (apparently debatable) that is sustained by a nearby star. 200 billion stars in the milky way returns about 20 life forms in our galaxy capable of looking up in the night sky and being aware there are other planets, stars, galaxies. It’s not a good prognosis for ILITU.

  • andywade

    Compelling stuff.

    How much of all was seen by the pilots’ own eyeballs, and how much via the various cameras / radars? I ask because the American military has long posessed a weapons system that can paint fake traces onto radar, and at least one early UFO incident can be ascribed to this.

    Could they not also posses something that can “paint” onto infra-red cameras? Perhaps this, or a drone of some sort being tested, or a combination of these things?

    Could the whitewater not have been caused by a submarine deploying one or all of the aforementioned, or perhaps coincidentally by a large animal, such as a whale? How tired were the pilots? Had they been medicated? (the American air forces and naval air force still use “go pills”, ie, amphetamines”).

    This isn’t to disrespect anyone, it’s just that some quite serious claims are being made, and while they appear to be corroborated, it’s important to keep a genuinely open mind which also includes explanations which don’t involve little green men – though as a skeptic I’ve got admit to being stumped by this one!

    • Str8todamoney

      Very level headed comment right here. Let’s not jump to conclusions. Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence. Grainy black and white video is not extraordinary. I’m all open to the possibility by the way.

      • stopthesocialism

        I would say the performance of the craft that these professionals witnessed was extraordinary. Not only the performance, but the seeming lack of conventional propulsion.

        • Str8todamoney

          Yet again, this very statement sound extraordinary yet all we have is grainy video and eye witness reports. That is not extraordinary evidence.

          • stopthesocialism

            No, we also have radar tracking data that shows the craft coming down from 80,000′ to hover @ 50′ over the ocean. Accelerate to 2,400 MPH in a few seconds. Outmaneuver, and out accelerate an F-18. If that is not extraordinary, I don’t know what is.

          • Thomas OHearn

            Gosh I want that released.

          • ugluk2

            That phrase “ extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” is meaningless. I think it was coined by Carl Sagan, but it is nothing more than rhetoric.

            The event being discussed here was extraordinary. We don’t have an explanation and one could argue that those who are inclined to dismiss it as a secret military aircraft or some weird atmospheric phenomenon are the ones making the extraordinary claim that needs extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof here falls on anyone who claims to know what this was and that applies to skeptics as much as it does to the believers in aliens.

          • Str8todamoney

            I don’t think any respectable person claims to know 100% that this was a secret military aircraft. People are just saying that it’s more likely. I do see a ton of people claiming to “know” these were aliens.

    • Marko

      ” Could the whitewater not have been caused by …………a large animal, such as a whale? ”

      That was my first thought ; whales bubble-feeding. The turbulent area would disappear as the bubbles disperse , which could explain what was described.

      http://www.prideofmaui.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bubble-netting-humpback-whales.jpg

  • RM

    As a Bible believing Christian, there are no extraterrestrials but there are demonic angels. According to The Bible they can come and go at their will. What physical being could withstand the forces of those maneuvers at those incredible speeds? Those pilots were tracking supernatural beings.

    • Darrell Ightful

      Maybe Moses’s security clearance wasn’t high enough to get to hear about the aliens.

      • RM

        Hi Darrell, I did laugh! But Moses had a very high security clearance. He spoke directly with Yahweh Elohim and was buried by The Lord himself. Michael S. Heiser has written about the fallen angets, A.K.A The Watchers. If you are curious, take a look and thanks for the laugh.

  • Joe Schmuccatelli

    Black project testing. Air control confirmed that the first flight was unarmed before it was cleared it to pursue the thing. After noon chow, air control sent out a second flight unarmed with the same mission. They didn’t want the boys to even be able to try to shoot down one of their new toys. They just wanted to see if the pilots could “see” it.

    • stopthesocialism

      Pilots said they couldn’t get a radar lock. Also, no missile in the inventory can reach 80,000′, or 2,400 MPH in a few seconds. This is a very strange story.

      • Joe Schmuccatelli

        They are called black projects precisely because “they don’t exist”.

        • Thomas OHearn

          Look, you’ll think I’m crazy, but a group of us watched a falling star hover, black out into this dark moon thing, and fly out over Salem, Oregon. I do astrophotography, I’m a drone nut, my AF buddy was there and just as mystified. I filed a report with MUFON the next day.

          There are black projects, sure, but some capabilities are just tiers above our technology level.

    • Christophe Spitzer

      Since we finally know that the video (2004) I posted here in the comments before the NYT even mentionned it…actually leaked and was uploaded on the internet back in 2007 or before… All our common ennemies can seat back, open a beer and watch EO/IR footage of it at home with wife and kids. Is such a theory logical ? You decide.

    • B.A. Grissom

      Don’t you think it would be a bit on the intelligent side not to approach an unknown and possibly advanced alien craft with an armed aircraft? To do so could be conceived as a hostile act by whoever or whatever it is. Better safe than sorry.

    • B.A. Grissom

      If it was a Black Project do you really believe it would now be broadcasted by every media source on the internet and television at this time? Doubtful. This info would have been swept clean LONG AGO.

    • mahajohn

      No, the story was investigated by the Pentagon, by the group that is getting so much press this past week, and they wouldn’t have allowed the release of this information if it had anything remotely to do with the uncontrolled testing and demonstration of a truly “black project.”

  • RealSci

    The image above with the 6 lights in formation shows coordinates that place them over the Yucatan and not over the Pacific, so that image has nothing to do with this story. It is concerning that the author of this article added images not associated with the story.

  • M B

    I crap UFO’s…and I’ll crap on alla’ya if you can’t take it !

  • Thomas OHearn

    Really love to hear your thoughts now, sir, as this event has been officially acknowledged and is again in the spotlight.

  • B.A. Grissom

    This is an amazing story and reminds me of an object I saw and filmed myself in 2012.
    I’ve caught a lot of unusual objects on video North of this tiny community here in SW Oklahoma and one of them was a white cylindrical shaped object that came and went from the same exact place in the sky twice in about an hours time. I have it on YouTube but people think it’s fake but I put NOTHING FAKE on my YouTube channel. I only had a camcorder, a DVR, a television, and my cell phone to work with is why it looks so grainy and sounds like I’m talking in a box.
    I downloaded the camcorder into my DVR and then played it over the television and recorded it onto my cell phone AND THEN uploaded it to my YouTube channel. A bit of a hassle but I didn’t have a computer or else I could have put it straight from the camcorder onto YouTube.
    It was a best sighting I’ve ever had and I was really excited about it and then let down when no one believe it was real.
    The video is called “Cylindrical-shaped UFO over SW Oklahoma” and my YouTube channel is “Paladone101” for anyone interested.

  • B.A. Grissom

    This is an object I filmed just North of town in 2012. It disappeared for awhile, then came back to the exact place for a few minutes then disappeared again.
    https://youtu.be/aDNZKdhow6k

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